[Hearthstone Science] Battlecries Resolve AFTER The Minion Enters Play

Hello everyone, let’s talk about something
important. When you play a minion, first it enters play, and later its Battlecry resolves.
One of the biggest pieces of misinformation in the Hearthstone community is that the Battlecry
resolves BEFORE the minion enters play. I’m not kidding, check out the upvote counts on
all these reddit posts that are -dead wrong-. Let’s watch some more clips together, and
clear this up once and for all. You just saw a clip where Leeroy Jenkins’
Battlecry summoned two Whelps, which triggered an enemy Knife Juggler to hit and kill Leeroy,
all before the Battlecry resolves. But we can interact with played minions even
earlier – ‘on play’ trigger minions, such as Illidan Stormrage, trigger after the played
minion enters play BEFORE the Battlecry resolves, allowing us to change the game state before
the Battlecry. For example, we can use Illidan Stormrage
to trigger a Knife Juggler and set off a chain reaction that leads to a played Twilight Drake
taking one damage and dying before his Battlecry resolves and gives him more Health. Or how about instead of killing the Battlecry
minion before its Battlecry begins – we take control of it using Sylvanas Windrunner? The
Battlecry will then resolve as though it always belonged to the opponent, which is really
cool. Dr. Boom enters play before his Boom Bots
do, since the Battlecry resolves after the minion enters play. Yet this misinformation
is so pervasive that Trump and Amaz, two Hearthstone pro players, think that the Boom Bots enter
play before Dr. Boom. See for yourself. OK, so what is really happening? Let’s take
a look at the Sequence of Phases that resolves when you play a minion. First, the minion
leaves your hand and enters play. Then the On Play Phase resolves, where Illidan Stormrage,
Hobgoblin, Questing Adventurer and more queue and resolve. Then the Battlecry Phase resolves.
Then the After Play Phase resolves, where Mirror Entity and other Secrets related to
playing a minion, and Rumbling Elemental, queue and resolve. Then finally the After
Summon Phase resolves, where Knife Juggler, Sword of Justice and Ship’s Cannon queue and
resolve. In addition, after each outermost Phase, we process deaths and update Auras
until no new deaths are found, creating a Death Phase each time we found deaths. This model makes many useful predictions.
For example, death processing repeats until no new deaths are found, so if the Battlecry
causes a minion to die, and THAT death results in another minion dying and so on, all death
processing will resolve before the After Play Phase begins and Mirror Entity triggers. It also predicts that if you play Dr. Boom
onto a board with 1 or more other minions, Sacred Trial will trigger following Dr. Boom’s
Battlecry, because Sacred Trial triggers in the After Play Phase, and checks its condition
at this time. But hold on – Earlier we used Illidan Stormrage
to affect the game state before the Battlecry begins. But Illidan Stormrage and Mirror Entity
use the word ‘when’ or ‘whenever’ in their card text. So why does Mirror Entity trigger
AFTER the Battlecry in the same Phase as Rumbling Elemental, and Illidan Stormrage trigger BEFORE
the Battlecry? Simply, this is a mistake in the card text.
And it’s a mistake that can be fixed – recently Ship’s Cannon, Sword of Justice and Djinni
of Zephyrs were corrected in a patch to use ‘after’ instead of ‘whenever’. I have faith
in Blizzard that one day, Mirror Entity and the other Secrets related to playing a minion
will also have their card text fixed. And to all of you out there watching this
video, I have only one request – whenever you see a streamer or reddit post or forum
post think Battlecries occur before the minion enters play, please correct them. Please link
them this video. Together, we can fix the biggest piece of misinformation in the entire
Hearthstone community once and for all. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you. If you’re interested in our model of playing
a minion, and want to learn more about the mechanics behind it, check out the Advanced
rulebook, where we list all the rules and all the different Phases. I’ve linked it in
the description. Thanks for watching!

69 thoughts on “[Hearthstone Science] Battlecries Resolve AFTER The Minion Enters Play

  1. Oh man, all this kind of going deeper into hearthstone mechanics is epic! I love it, please please keep it going 🙂

    I just recently subbed, btw.

  2. When fire elemental hits a mad scientist that brings out a mirror entity if the battlecry happens after why does the mirror entity copy the fire elemental?

  3. I've personally never seen a comment saying that Battlecries resolve before the minion enters play, but good video anyway.

  4. How is the first clip in any way relevant? It doesn't show whether it's before or after, because the attack that's blocked is a separate action…

  5. In the sacred trial video, why is boom killed? He's the third minion on the opponent's board. Yes, it's a "play" card, but Boom wasn't played as a 4th.

  6. You're missing a nuance here, there are multiple stages of putting minion in play, there is reserving slot on the board when playing a card, there is summoning and various stages when various effects trigger.

  7. wait so why does si:agent gets copied by a mirror entity thats been pulled by a mad scientist who died from the combo effect of the agent?

  8. No reason to get angry, dude! A big source of the confusion is Sword of Justice. If you have two charges of Sword of Justice and play Dr. Boom, its the two Boom Bots that will receive the buff, not Dr. Boom himself. The same is true for any other battlecry minion that summons other minions. Razorfen Hunter, Silver Hand Knight, etc. If its the main body that gets played first than it is absolutely not clear why the summoned minions get buffed first.

  9. But the thing is: If you have 1 minion and play Boom, Sacred Trial triggers on Boom, therefore he's considered the 4th minion in play what means the battlecry triggers before the minion goes in play. If it was differemt, then it should kill one of the boom bots as they'd be the 3rd and 4th minions in play right?

  10. I lost a match where I killed opponent's Scientist with Blackwing's Corruptor battlecry and it actually got copied by Mirror Entity that Scientist's deathrattle fetched, giving opponent the exact 5 damage he needed for lethal. I didn't expect it, dammit. Fuck this game

  11. You have strange accent >.< I needed to replay few sentences in order to understand them. Anyway good video, helped me to understand mechanics better ^_^

  12. Hearsthone is a game with community that does more than the company who made it. Rulebook written by random people, special events also made by players not Blizzard. Well, they have our money so..

  13. The case with Dr. Boom and sacred trial clearly shows bad design decision.

    Come on, no memory on game state in which the game can easily check there is only 1 minion when Dr. Boom is played?
    More like lazy programming.

  14. speak a little bit slower please, english is not everybodys native language and really hard to understand so many information when the presenter jabbers, very helpful video though, thx

  15. but…. when u put boom on board with sword of justice up with 2 remaining durability the bots gets buffed, boom stays 7/7… knife juggler throws knifes for bots first, then the last one for boom. i think its a bit messed up

  16. I think that mostly has to do smthing like the SJ interaction. This happens "often" enough that even experienced players come to the wrong conclusion.

  17. lol im pretty sure i complained to some guy who said he'd ask you about this interaction…. maybe my ego is getting the best of me.

  18. SOOOOOOO if the boom bots dont go into play before doctor boom then why does dr boom get killed by sacred trial when its played with another minion on the board…. if what yo u said about dr boom is correct, and the summoned minions come after….. then this interactions shouldnt happen? anyone wanna explain ?

  19. Thx this helped a lot even tho i had to watch it two times to understand everything clearly, the way secrets work is really too weird…

  20. I just want to point out that this is not a rule in all cases. For example if you play Blingtron 3000 and it gives you Sword of Justice, Blingtron will get +1/+1 so the battlecry resolve before the minion enters play. Don't know of any other cases but there might be more exceptions to the rule.

  21. If this is true then explain Sacred trial killing Jaraxxus, if battlecry happens after the minion then sacred trial should kill the minion and the battlecry never happens so you can't lose the game, but that's not the case as seen lot of times

  22. But in the video with the sacred trial and dr. boom it is obvious that boom is the second card entering the play. Otherwise one of boom bots would be get killed by the secret instead of him. Am I wrong

  23. No one said that battlecries trigger before play, they are triggered before summon. A minion is played when it lives your hand while it is summoned when it falls to the board. Battlecries trigger before it falls to the board.

  24. If minions enter play before their battlecries then how come mages don't get 3/3 Faceless or 4/1 Twilight Drakes from Mirror Entity?

  25. It's easy to get confused with Dr. Boom, because when you play him while equipted with Sword of Justice the Boom Bots get the +1/+1 first.

  26. Lately I've been facing a pally with the secret "sacred trial". I had 3 minions on board, so I sacrificed a coldlight into his Tirion to play around the secret and play boom… But that secret triggered and killed Dr. Boom 😀 So the boom-bots are actually summoned first before dr. comes into play…

  27. So inconsistent, that SI:7 Agent Triggers mirror Entity when you kill a mad scientist with SI's comboeffect.. It's probably due to SI7 is a combo and not a battlecry effect, but in my opinion it should be resolved like this:
    SI comes into play, 2 dmg are dealt, secret comes in play, and that should be it..
    Currently it's: dmg -> deathrattle -> secret -> SI comes in play -> Entity goes off..

  28. I think the confusion about Boom Bots coming into play first is because of how cards like Sword of Justice work.

    Doctor Boom enters play. Sword of Justice doesn't happen until "after a minion is summoned", so the Boom Bots WILL enter play before the Sword of Justice triggers.

    But most people think that Sword then should give it's one last counter to Doctor Boom because he came into play first. But when each Boom Bot comes into play, it initiates it's own little window of effects, so even though Doctor Boom entered play first, the "After a minion is summoned" effect for the Boom Bot will happen before the "After a minion is summoned" effect for Doctor Boom, leading to one of the Boom Bots receiving the +1/+1. By the time the Sword of Justice would resolve for Doctor Boom, there is no more duration and the Sword has already been destroyed.

    But since the Boom Bot receives the +1/+1, not Doctor Boom, it leads many people to believe that the Boom Bot entered play first, which is not correct.

    It isn't intuitive, but it does make sense if you understand everything that is happening.

  29. 1:01

    How can Stormrage and Juggler trigger when your opponent plays the Drake? Neither of those cards trigger on an opponent's play. Somebody explain?

  30. that's wrong, your explication have no sense for me, the secret says if your opponent have 3 or more minions and plays another destroy it, when you play Dr boom since the battlecry is after as you say, then you had only one minion in the board when Dr boom was played so the secret should have no be activated, hearthstone is a extremely inconsistent game, and no one knows what happens with the battlecries, blizzard does what they want

    another example of that is the next, when you have a juggler in the board and you play an owl, then the owl silence first and after the juggler throws the knife, so the battlecry of the owl was before it was summoned

  31. Omg exactly these piece of information I made my personal crusade in the HS Forums 😀 (that was influenced by your earlier viedos) you bet that this video will be linked 😉

  32. The Dr. Boom one is weird, even though Vanish sends Boom back to the hand, playing Dr. Boom into Sacred Trial with more than one minion on board will cause Dr. Boom to be destroyed. Also playing Kezan Mystic into Mirror Entity steals the Mirror Entity. Both these examples seem to indicate that battlecries trigger before a minion enters play. There's so many weird inconsistencies that its hard to tell how battlecries actually trigger.

    It's very much like I before E except after C with battlecries in Hearthstone, sometimes Battlecries seem to trigger first, sometimes they don't and there doesn't seem to be any set rule of operations. We can only hope to learn each interaction as it comes.

  33. Hey, it seems I found a bug. Played against a friend, he had counterspell up I frostbolted my Dr. Boom, it got counterspelled, then played frostbolt on him again. Dr. Boom wasn't frozen.

  34. 4:24 What, that cant be right. Everybody has killed a champion with a 1 health minion on the board and it still lived with 1.

  35. Can you explain me why, at 4:40, the sacred trial is not triggered during the second bomb summoning phase, and so kills the second bomb summoned instead of Dr.Boom ? The 4th minion on the board is a bomb not the Dr.Boom.

  36. Steward of Darkshire reads "Whenever you summon a one health minion, give it divine shield." Sword of Justice reads "After you summon a minion, give it +1/+1". According to your model, a summoned one health minion should get divine shield and then +1/+1 right? I just had this occur in a game and my silver hand recruit only got the +1/+1 buff. Am I mistaken or is something not working correctly here?

  37. Cool video. Very informative, but I'm still having trouble understand how Cabal can trigger KJ passive. Could someone explain this please?

  38. If the boom bots came into play first then you couldn't even play dr boom on a board of 5 minions on your side. How did they believe that?

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